The Dialogues of G. de Purucker
Copyright © 1997 by Theosophical University Press. All rights Reserved.

KTMG Papers: Seventeen

Meeting of July 23, 1930

G. de P. — I am now ready to answer questions.

Student — One of the members of this group in reading one of Robert Browning's poems gave a unique interpretation of it, and I would like to ask you if such a thing would be possible. There is a king, who in the mind of this member was somewhat of an initiate or teacher, and he had a very dear disciple or chela who was devoted and faithful. The teacher was going through a struggle with some evil forces, which perhaps he had attracted to himself in some former incarnation, and the pupil through his utter selflessness and impersonal love was able to draw away these evil forces, and the teacher thus came out of the struggle successfully.

It seemed such an interesting and unusual situation I wondered if such a thing could ever be possible.

G. de P. — It is indeed a most unusual — or would be rather — a most unusual thing. Usually, of course, it is the teacher who watches over his pupils, guides their steps, and saves them from danger. But at the same time the devoted love and watchfulness of the chelas for their teacher is a very real force of protection thrown around the teacher. The chelas can at least free the teacher's attention, to a certain extent, from guarding — if I may so phrase the matter — his own atmosphere, his own individuality.

I don't think that the power that a chela could ordinarily have would be strong enough to interfere with the teacher's karma. Karma always must come, and the teacher would be the last person in the world to prevent its coming, to impede its coming. With the wisdom and insight and spiritual strength that a real teacher has, or is supposed to have, he would be able to lead such an evil karma falling upon him into rivulets, or small runlets, of exhaustion, so that the entirety of the burden might not fall upon him as a crushing blow. Such cases occasionally happen. Disease, for instance, along the lines of the explanation that I have tried to give on other occasions, is frequently treated in this way. I do not know what else I could answer. Is the answer at all responsive to your thought?

Student — Yes, thank you. It is just what I thought.

Student — Four weeks ago you told us that only one globe of any septenary chain on the same planes of the kosmos as our earth's planetary chain, can be seen by the men who live in this fourth round of the earth's planetary chain. In other words, the fourth globe of any chain, the lowest globe of any chain, is that globe which can be sensed by the inhabitants of this fourth globe of the earth-chain, because all such visible globes are all on the same plane of material existence on which we are in this our fourth globe of the earth-chain.

G. de P. — That is right.

Student — That was quoted from the corrected stenographic report of four weeks ago. Question: I believe, if I understand correctly, that each one of the planets that we see is part, or rather is only one globe, of each respective planetary chain. Is then this globe that we see the fourth globe of each respective chain?

G. de P. — Yes, it is; and we see these fourth globes of the other planetary chains only because we are on the same cosmic plane. There is one reservation that perhaps I should have made in the quotation that you have read from me, and it is this: that those who have passed the fourth degree of initiation can see other globes than the fourth one of the several planetary chains. Do you understand?

Student — Yes, thank you. May I lead up to my next question with this remark? I understand that there are seven planes with a globe on each corresponding plane — in the large sense — and that also there is a moon connected with each globe of the earth-chain. Is that correct?

G. de P. — The latter part is correct. Each globe of the earth-chain has a corresponding globe of the lunar chain which is its own parent. But the seven globes of the earth's planetary chain do not exist on seven different cosmic planes. All the seven globes of the planetary chain of the earth exist only on the four lower cosmic planes. On the fourth cosmic plane there exist two globes of our planetary chain, the first and the last, globe A and globe G. On the fifth cosmic plane counting downwards there exist likewise two globes of our planetary chain, globe B and globe F. On the sixth cosmic plane counting downwards there likewise exist two globes of our planetary chain, globe C and globe E. And on the seventh and last or lowest of the cosmic planes, there exists one globe, our earth, it being the turning point of all the rounds. Have you the picture in your mind?

Student — Yes, thank you. I think that it also answers my next question. Then that is why you speak of two moon-globes and the two earth-globes existing on the same next solar plane?

G. de P. — Correct. That is quite right.

Student — Referring to this question about the poem that Browning wrote about Saul: in order to make any sense out of it, it seems that we have to interpret the Bible story theosophically, in order to face the characters where they have a meaning; and would it be correct to assign the name Saul to the human soul, and David to the divinity?

G. de P. — Well now, there is a mystical thought which is not so wide of the truth; but I do not think that the two Jewish Biblical characters of David and Saul refer specifically to the two human principles of which you speak. There is, however, a mystical allusion, or rather a forced one, if you like.

David, I understand, was "a man after God's own heart," was he not?

Many Voices — Yes.

G. de P. — Well, in our own times, I am afraid that the police would have jailed him for bigamy among other things, or trigamy, or some other kind of "igamy." You see, I would not like to say that the application that you have made is an exact one, though your thought runs along the true line. Do you understand me?

Student — The picture that the poet paints of David seems to be very beautiful.

G. de P. — Well, David has been given a coat of whitewash, like so many others of the biblical characters. He was perhaps no worse than other folk of his times, or of our times for the matter of that.

Student — What is the relation, if any, between the globe D of the earth-chain and the humanity of globe D of the earth-chain, and the three superior globes during earth-life, or at any other time? What is the relation between this globe D and the three ascending or superior globes of the chain?

G. de P. — The three ascending globes of the chain? There is a very close relation indeed. I may perhaps say this, following the ancient rule that when an intuitive question is asked, some answer must be forthcoming.

Physically speaking, human beings are the children of the earth. The moon is also very closely involved in the production of our physical form. The three ascending globes of the earth-chain have practically nothing at all to do with the physical body of man, but a very great deal to do with the interior part of man's constitution, and especially after death. I will also say this, that the monad after the death of a physical body on earth passes through these three globes on the ascending arc of the earth's planetary chain, before the monad goes on to destinies still more wonderful.

Do you get a hint from what I have answered?

Student — Yes, thank you.

Student — Who created the animals and vegetables and the mineral kingdom of the first round if man came after them? Were they the result of what we did on the moon?

G. de P. — Are you speaking of the first round?

Student — Yes, Professor. Because we understand that the animals came from man, and indeed that all the lower kingdoms came from man. I am puzzled.

G. de P. — It is quite true that the animals and the lower kingdoms came from "man," and yet man, as we know him, came later than the minerals and vegetables, but not the animals. Now this is a puzzle, worthy of Oedipus, is it not? Well, here is the idea. You are speaking of the first round. That was the formative period during which the seven globes of the earth's planetary chain were formed — were in formation. There were no men when the earth first began to form. There were the three elemental kingdoms which did their work around the laya-center, helping to build up this aeriform, luciform, translucent body which the earth then was. Are you referring only to our fourth globe?

Student — No, I was referring to globe A.

G. de P. — Very well, then, globe A. In that case the same remark applies exactly. When the three elemental kingdoms had done their work on globe A, they went into obscuration, and then the surplusage of their life passed downwards into a more material region and began the elemental work of forming the succeeding globe B. But meanwhile on globe A, the mineral kingdom had begun to come into existence, and the mineral kingdom at this early time was the product of the monads which in the fourth round were destined to become men, or rather, destined to manifest as men. Do you understand?

Student — Yes, Professor.

G. de P. — When the mineral kingdom had finished its work on globe A, it in its turn then went into obscuration, and its surplusage of life passed to form the mineral kingdom on globe B; while the three elemental kingdoms which had preceded it on the downward arc during round one, moved forward, each one, a step to globe C, D, and E, beginning the elemental forms on these three globes. Meanwhile, going back to globe A which the surplusage of life in the mineral kingdom had left and which partly remained in obscuration on globe A as the mineral kingdom there, the vegetable kingdom then began to put in an appearance on globe A, a still further manifestation of the seven classes of the monads which were to produce men, the monads which were to express themselves as humans on globe D, our earth, in the fourth round. When the vegetable kingdom had run through its seven root-races, or had finished its work on globe A, then just exactly as the preceding kingdoms had done, a part remained on globe A as the sishtas, the seeds, in obscuration; and the surplusage of the life forces of the vegetable kingdom passed on to globe B, the second globe on the downward arc, in order to form the vegetable kingdom there. And with its incoming into globe B, or the second globe, each one of the kingdoms which had preceded it and which were then existent on different globes, moved forward each one a globe or a step in evolution. Returning again to globe A. Almost immediately coincident with the entering into obscuration of the vegetable kingdom on globe A, the animal kingdom began to put in an appearance on globe A, these animal monads being one of the classes of monads which later on, and during the fourth round, would become human beings, men. Do you follow the scheme thus far?

Student — Yes, Professor.

G. de P. — When the beasts, if you may call them that, on globe A in the first round had run through their seven root-races on that globe — or seven rings, or seven cycles, call them what you will — and had finished their racial evolution, a part of them went into obscuration as the sishtas or seeds for the next planetary manvantara, and the surplusage or remaining life-forces of the animal kingdom passed in their turn down into globe B which was then ready for the incoming animal kingdom, because on globe B the preceding or vegetable kingdom had finished its work. When this occurred each one of the kingdoms already in the procession forwards, took still another step forwards, that is, each one of the kingdoms went to another globe.

Returning again to globe A: now comes the time for the primary human beings to appear on globe A in the first round. They came — sketches of a humanity, so to speak. And this embryo humanity went through its seven root-races on globe A producing in the seventh root-race beings very closely akin to what we would call men; but beings appropriate in every way, physically, psychologically, spiritually and otherwise, to globe A during the first round. When the seven root-races of the human kingdom on globe A during the first round were ended, then globe A as a globe went into obscuration, because the human kingdom passed on to the next globe B; and just as before each one of the preceding classes of monads, the three elemental kingdoms, the mineral, the vegetable, and the animal, moved each one a step ahead.

Thus then the auric eggs — and I am changing the figure of explanation now — the auric eggs which began the building up of globe A as the three elemental kingdoms are the same auric eggs which in the fourth round enshrine human beings. Do you see the picture?

Student — Of the elemental kingdoms, yes.

G. de P. — Man is a microcosm. He has in his composition the three elemental kingdoms, the mineral kingdom, the vegetable kingdom, the beast kingdom, and the human kingdom, and in addition is overshadowed or over-lightened by a god — his own inner god.

The time periods of the respective appearances of the beasts and men on earth are puzzling because in certain of our teachings it is taught that man preceded the beasts, and in other parts it is stated that man came after the beasts. As a matter of fact, both statements are true, but depending upon the time periods one has in mind. So far as the globes are concerned and the rounds, the beasts preceded man as man now is, but man outran the higher orders of the beasts; so that when in the fourth round on this fourth globe man appeared, he appeared before the mammals, and this word mammals is the important word to recollect. The lower animals evolutionally beneath the mammals appeared on earth, this earth, this fourth globe in this fourth round, before man did, being sishtas and products from the preceding third round; but the mammalian beasts came after man, and as a matter of fact directly from him in the early third root-race and after. Do you understand it a little better now, perhaps?

Recollect this also, Companions, that everything on globe D, earth, and throughout the entire planetary chain of earth, ultimately or rather originally came from man. The three elemental kingdoms, the mineral kingdom, the vegetable kingdom, the beast kingdom, and of course his own kingdom; and when the word man is used in this way it does not mean man as he now is, but that particular stream of astral monadic essences who inform man even at the present time. I repeat: during previous rounds the leading family of monads, which now is the human family, threw off from itself during those different rounds first the elemental kingdoms, then the mineral kingdom, then the vegetable kingdom, and then the beasts beneath the mammals, and man as we now know him came afterwards. But in the fourth round on this fourth globe, man had outrun in his evolutionary course those higher classes of beasts called the mammalian astral monads, and therefore man as a family appeared before they did. Do you understand it better?

Many Voices — Yes, thank you, Professor.

G. de P. — As a final comment, I might also add that as mammals signifies beings with breasts, sexual beings, man must have separated from his former androgynous or hermaphroditic state before the mammalian beasts appeared. Of course non-mammalian sex appeared before the mammals, but here we are discussing that form of sex which we call the mammalian. Man himself is a mammal, physically speaking, remember. Recollect also in this connection that the original appearances of the first and second root-races appeared far back in geologic time — in fact in what is now called the Primary Age by geologists, and even as far back in the Primary Age possibly as the Devonian and Permian Periods. It was probably in the Triassic Period of the Secondary Age that man first "separated" into the two sexes, and this was about the fifth subrace of the third root-race. The small mammals of marsupial type, which the geologic record of the rocks shows as appearing in the early Secondary, prove by the esoteric records that man himself must then have separated into the two sexes from his former androgynous state.

When I used the word outran in my preceding observations this evening, I was referring to the fact that the higher classes of monads run more rapidly up the ascending arc than do the lower classes, because it is here that the law of retardation weighs upon the lower classes; and the law of acceleration aids the higher classes of monads such as the human, because these higher classes are more spiritual. Also in a general way it may be stated that the highest classes lead in the van and the lower classes come trailing afterwards. Nor is this contradictory of the other fact that, merely regarding the geologic evolutionary record, we find that the lowest classes of monads, as living physical entities, came first, then the next higher, then the next higher, and then the next higher up to man. This is a paradoxical statement, but it would require an hour's explanation for complete elucidation, and I must let the statement go as it is for your thoughtful study. Even in an army, although the scouts and the privates come first, the general and his staff are guiding the campaign and lay out the routes, and often actually physically may be found in the van themselves. The idea is an imperfect illustration, but it may help.

[ The sounding of the gong. Silence.]

Meeting 18